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Meta: on Supernatural
Mostly, I've been thinking about canon and fanon (or canon vs. fanon).
I'm very much intrigued to witness how little canon details get used, transformed, enhanced or ignored by writers (and it can be for a million reasons, of course, for ease of writing, for not remembering it, and what have you). I don't mean these observations as critical in a negative way, I'm just observing (I'm probably the first to tweak details to my own liking :), but as I said, it's fascinating to see how fanon builts on itself from writer to writer.
Also, spoilerish for the season finale.
- In the Pilot, Sam never says he wants a 'normal' life. Dean says that. Sam replies with 'Safe'.
Now, I think this makes a big difference in working out what Sam priorities might have been in choosing to go to college, making him possibly less selfish than he's usually interpreted. What he wanted was safety - who knows how many times John and Dean and Sam himself had risked death and/or serious wounds, and at some point Sam said, 'this is enough'. It was his 'one hell of a fight' exchange with John to push him over the limit and to, with typical Winchester stubborness, for once, make him obey one of Dad's orders 'Stay gone'. Sam's original intentions were probably of the more normal kind: 'I'll go to college and come back during holidays'.
However, in many fictions the 'safe' gets changed with normal, and expanded into the picket fence, wife and 2.4 kids, plus dog. In a way, because John Winchester is who he is, and in part because of the boys having their own personality, but also thansk to how they were taught growing up, we are lucky that Sam didn't turn out a real library mouse, scared of his own shadow, an anal freak retentive obsessed with closed windows, escape ways and with an exorcism or two always on his lips. Which would make for a brilliant What If, I suppose *G*
- the 'always living in motels' thing
Uhm. As much as I like the idea of them being a real gipsy family, I don't remember anywhere in canon saying that they NEVER stopped in one place. I do believe, as we've seen in SW, that indeed John took them around with him in many of his hunting trips. I also believe that the boys probably did miss school days here and there. But, from what John wrote in his journal, I don't think they really moved around constantly. Especially for Sam to be able to graduate, and with flying colors.
So, yes to fanon with the 'moving often' but possibly every year or two? Which would, in a way, be even more difficult for them growing up, adjust to a place, be there long enough to make friends but still having to keep them at a distance because of the Family Business.
Also, in the Pilot again, I think the whole conversation about John letting Dean do his own solo hunting trips and Sam's surprise about it means that until Sam was 18 and Dean 22, John didn't let them go on their own - obsessive protective father much? But it also meant that John was looking after them, in his own way.That paired with John's journal observation that 'this year we'll be going to Little League' for Dean makes me think that he did try to give them some semblance of normality. Sam's observation about that are all in connection with weapons ad fighting 'he gave me a 45 - we were raised like warriors - melting silver'...
...which makes me think that in a way, if they had a completely a-normal life, out of any common rules, Sam might not have felt the difference so much. He had to have something to compare his/their family life to, and to realise that the weapons/training/hunting was the abnormal very unsafe element that made him forever different.
Much more romantic to expand the notion in an undistinguished series of nameless motels, I know :) *pets fanfic*
- the 'don't call me Sammy' thing
Sam says it in the Pilot. And possibly another time or two? Always to Dean, and always in relatively relaxed times. But, if Dean says it in moments of danger, I don't remember Sam objecting to it at all. Most important, John calls Sam 'Sammy' lots of times, and Sam doesn't utter a breath about it. Which makes sense to me, in a way, because as much as Dean is the one always trying to/pleasing/obeying John, the one that really still needs John's approval, as much as he denies, it's Sam.
In (the much undervalued!) Bugs Sam tells Dean that when they find Dad, he doesn't even know if Dad will want to see him. He says that whatever he did, it was never enough. I'm not surprised then that Sam goes away to college, because it's John's approval that seems to evade him doing the hunting life, and Sam sort of gives up on his father and his approval altogether. In a way. Decisions like that are never really easy and always propelled by more than one clear b/w motive.
Dean knows his place in the family. Dean and John are like soldiers, and Sam will always be Sam to them, the little one, the baby to protect -- and a part of Sam, the part that wants 'safe', possibly doesn't reject that all, because in each child, the parent (and John is the only parent that Sam has known) is the protector. As Sam himself says in Salvation, he wishes that John was there to watch their back.
All of this to say: 'don't call me Sammy' works for Dean, in certain moments, but John gets a free pass. *g*
Uhm. So, how come that this turned into a sort of 'Analyse Sam' thingy? :)
Anyway.
Moments in which I thought JP's acting particularly kicked ass:
- when they find John in DT, and Sam stays on the door, holding his breath in and totally looking like a ten year old all of a sudden, then releasing his breath in relief when Dean says that John's alive.
- in BM, playing his own reflection in the mirror. He was quite scary, so detached and cold.
- again in DT, when he kneels beside Bleeding!Dean, and there he goes again with the 10 yo voice.
- HH, because he truly looked amused by all the pranks (ie. he made me believe in the laughing)
- in SW, all the little looks and glances he gives Dean as he slowly learns what really happened with the Strega when they were kids.
His acting doesn't really convince me when he has to yell/scream in anger, because he does this 'chin-forward' thing and this 'deepening-voice' things and they smell to me of acting tricks more than true yelling. All my problem, of course, but it's as if he doesn't come across as really angry, to me, which of course underpowers the scene itself.
And I think I've rambled enough :D
Ideas, opinions, comments?
I'm very much intrigued to witness how little canon details get used, transformed, enhanced or ignored by writers (and it can be for a million reasons, of course, for ease of writing, for not remembering it, and what have you). I don't mean these observations as critical in a negative way, I'm just observing (I'm probably the first to tweak details to my own liking :), but as I said, it's fascinating to see how fanon builts on itself from writer to writer.
Also, spoilerish for the season finale.
- In the Pilot, Sam never says he wants a 'normal' life. Dean says that. Sam replies with 'Safe'.
Now, I think this makes a big difference in working out what Sam priorities might have been in choosing to go to college, making him possibly less selfish than he's usually interpreted. What he wanted was safety - who knows how many times John and Dean and Sam himself had risked death and/or serious wounds, and at some point Sam said, 'this is enough'. It was his 'one hell of a fight' exchange with John to push him over the limit and to, with typical Winchester stubborness, for once, make him obey one of Dad's orders 'Stay gone'. Sam's original intentions were probably of the more normal kind: 'I'll go to college and come back during holidays'.
However, in many fictions the 'safe' gets changed with normal, and expanded into the picket fence, wife and 2.4 kids, plus dog. In a way, because John Winchester is who he is, and in part because of the boys having their own personality, but also thansk to how they were taught growing up, we are lucky that Sam didn't turn out a real library mouse, scared of his own shadow, an anal freak retentive obsessed with closed windows, escape ways and with an exorcism or two always on his lips. Which would make for a brilliant What If, I suppose *G*
- the 'always living in motels' thing
Uhm. As much as I like the idea of them being a real gipsy family, I don't remember anywhere in canon saying that they NEVER stopped in one place. I do believe, as we've seen in SW, that indeed John took them around with him in many of his hunting trips. I also believe that the boys probably did miss school days here and there. But, from what John wrote in his journal, I don't think they really moved around constantly. Especially for Sam to be able to graduate, and with flying colors.
So, yes to fanon with the 'moving often' but possibly every year or two? Which would, in a way, be even more difficult for them growing up, adjust to a place, be there long enough to make friends but still having to keep them at a distance because of the Family Business.
Also, in the Pilot again, I think the whole conversation about John letting Dean do his own solo hunting trips and Sam's surprise about it means that until Sam was 18 and Dean 22, John didn't let them go on their own - obsessive protective father much? But it also meant that John was looking after them, in his own way.That paired with John's journal observation that 'this year we'll be going to Little League' for Dean makes me think that he did try to give them some semblance of normality. Sam's observation about that are all in connection with weapons ad fighting 'he gave me a 45 - we were raised like warriors - melting silver'...
...which makes me think that in a way, if they had a completely a-normal life, out of any common rules, Sam might not have felt the difference so much. He had to have something to compare his/their family life to, and to realise that the weapons/training/hunting was the abnormal very unsafe element that made him forever different.
Much more romantic to expand the notion in an undistinguished series of nameless motels, I know :) *pets fanfic*
- the 'don't call me Sammy' thing
Sam says it in the Pilot. And possibly another time or two? Always to Dean, and always in relatively relaxed times. But, if Dean says it in moments of danger, I don't remember Sam objecting to it at all. Most important, John calls Sam 'Sammy' lots of times, and Sam doesn't utter a breath about it. Which makes sense to me, in a way, because as much as Dean is the one always trying to/pleasing/obeying John, the one that really still needs John's approval, as much as he denies, it's Sam.
In (the much undervalued!) Bugs Sam tells Dean that when they find Dad, he doesn't even know if Dad will want to see him. He says that whatever he did, it was never enough. I'm not surprised then that Sam goes away to college, because it's John's approval that seems to evade him doing the hunting life, and Sam sort of gives up on his father and his approval altogether. In a way. Decisions like that are never really easy and always propelled by more than one clear b/w motive.
Dean knows his place in the family. Dean and John are like soldiers, and Sam will always be Sam to them, the little one, the baby to protect -- and a part of Sam, the part that wants 'safe', possibly doesn't reject that all, because in each child, the parent (and John is the only parent that Sam has known) is the protector. As Sam himself says in Salvation, he wishes that John was there to watch their back.
All of this to say: 'don't call me Sammy' works for Dean, in certain moments, but John gets a free pass. *g*
Uhm. So, how come that this turned into a sort of 'Analyse Sam' thingy? :)
Anyway.
Moments in which I thought JP's acting particularly kicked ass:
- when they find John in DT, and Sam stays on the door, holding his breath in and totally looking like a ten year old all of a sudden, then releasing his breath in relief when Dean says that John's alive.
- in BM, playing his own reflection in the mirror. He was quite scary, so detached and cold.
- again in DT, when he kneels beside Bleeding!Dean, and there he goes again with the 10 yo voice.
- HH, because he truly looked amused by all the pranks (ie. he made me believe in the laughing)
- in SW, all the little looks and glances he gives Dean as he slowly learns what really happened with the Strega when they were kids.
His acting doesn't really convince me when he has to yell/scream in anger, because he does this 'chin-forward' thing and this 'deepening-voice' things and they smell to me of acting tricks more than true yelling. All my problem, of course, but it's as if he doesn't come across as really angry, to me, which of course underpowers the scene itself.
And I think I've rambled enough :D
Ideas, opinions, comments?
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Yes, exactly. I can imagine him watching Dean or his father get hurt, yet again, and just be thinking.. oh god, please let this be the last time i ever have to see this. it is still a form of selfishness though, to know that you can save lives, but choose not to because you're afraid for yourself or for the ones you love.
yeah, that normal thing is all Dean's interpretation. He's sensitive about being an outsider, even though he tries to bluster his way through it. He interprets Sam's leaving as a rejection not only of their way of life, but of all that he is.
Much more romantic to expand the notion in an undistinguished series of nameless motels, I know :) *pets fanfic*
They certainly didn't start out that way. What I remember about all the pre-series fic at first, was that I thought they didn't move around enough.
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Yep, I can see him too, seeing his father / brother coming back who knows when, who knows in what condition, never knowing if he will come back. It shakes you deep down, I'd guess.
Dean seems to have embraced the 'I'm a freak' notion much more than Sam, and I wonder how much Cassie's rejection has influenced this concept of himself. Canon-wise, Cassie is the first serious love of his life as a young man, around his 24 possibly, and that must have stung a lot, especially for him, given how close to himself he keeps his feelings. I wonder if he ever talked about Cassie with John, in anyway...
:D
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but, the whole sam leaving for college thing, i don't think he'd ever ever ever be able to have a "normal" life considering everything he's seen/done. he just wants to pretend for a while. and recalling what he said to dean (during shadow?) about it all being over when they killed the demon, i think college was a huge back-up plan. he goes there, gets a degree in whatever, then goes back to hunting for the demon, kills it, and then finally tries for something as relatively normal as possible. he never wanted to ignore the demon or anything, he just wanted to put it on hold for a while.
at least, that's what i think. ;-)
shannon
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I agree with you, he does say that he only wanted to go to college, not to Australia and become a kangaroo trainer (my addition of course ;). Which means, he wanted to try for as normal as possible considering what they were doing, and it was his fight with John to push things over into disaster. SAm was probably trying to find some middle way between all-out revenge and 'what happens after', and John was too focused to see any of it.
I also agree with you on not ever being able to have a normal life, not after what he knows. How could he? I wouldn't. Once you know there are huge spiders living in that dark corner, wouldn't you check each night? I would :)
thanks for commenting :)
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My interpretation? Most fan writers are mainly interested in manipulating their BSOs to act however they want them to, so they 1) actively ignore canon, especially if it contradicts their take on the characters, and 2) disregard the sometimes *huge* show-universe entirely to focus on contriving angst/turning men into 12-year-old girls/writing soap operas, or teen dramas, or whichever cliches/kinks ring their chimes.
Cynical? Moi? *cough*
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*passes you chocolate chip cookies just because*
Well, yes, there is that :) and the more fanfiction (in general) one reads, the more the characters start to be this vague shape with the right names. A fan in another fandom supports the idea of the 'fix fiction': that most fanwriters, as you say, write to get their 'fix' and manipulate the characters/universe/plots in order to achieve that. If the writers aren't skilled enough, one (she maintained) could actually follow them through fandoms and see it quite clearly.
Which is something that all writers do, to a certain extent, it's just a question of how open/clear it is.
:D
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*takes one gratefully and munches*
Yep, I remember back in the olden days, the whole point of fanfic was to write missing scenes and subtextual relationships. But these days? Not so much. Plus, there's the whole prevalence of badfic/crackfic, which makes me all avoidy, and it's a real shame, because I love a good, meaty story. But when you also love the universe, long for good, recognizable characterizations, and have an equality kink, there isn't much out there to make you happy. :-P
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I know I was spoiled, in Pros, because I was 'introduced' to the best of 20 plus years of fiction (and zine fiction at that) so I didn't have to wade through it all. A few more pearls I found on my own, later on.
Crackfic I don't mind, it's amusing :)
But, the whole web-publishing makes it so easy and fast and instantly gratisfying to post any two paragraphs. I long for the longer, meatier stories too :D
Re: this, have you read SPN 'Of Bastard Saints'? 'cause, it's gooood.
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Two paragraphs? I've seen people poop out 3-4 sentences of misspelled, incorrectly punctuated dreck, and call themselves writers.
Re: this, have you read SPN 'Of Bastard Saints'? 'cause, it's gooood.
No, I haven't. Do you have the link? As long as it isn't incest...
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http://nilchance.livejournal.com/205229.h
It's all done, though there may be a sequel, hopefully. Lots of plot, good characterisation, snark, no incest. :D
Enjoy!
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Sam says it in the Pilot. And possibly another time or two?
In The Benders:
Sam: Don't ... call ... me ... SAMMY!!! (as he rips a piece of metal off another piece of metal with a Herculean effort assumably inspired by the ferocity of his feelings about this subject)
I'm jes sayin ... ;-)
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It's two occasions :) any more?
Glad you like, take your time to shred it down! *G*
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And I wasn't shredding! I just wanted to offer more than "thumbs up, way up!" on everything else, about which I absolutely agree. And I loved your pointing out of the fanon as compared to the canon ... especially in the name. Too funny.
For myself, I can say that canon discrepencies come in the form of failed memory rather than intentional disregard ... as well as the fact that I don't yet have a full set of the episodes to reference, so there are some things I haven't been exposed to yet. And since I'm not much of one to think that just because I moved to town late and thus haven't seen every game in a season, I can't still be the kind of fan that roots, roots, roots for the home team; I fanfic even though it runs the risk of occasionally crossing canon. :D
I'll comment more later ... promise.
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I love fanon - almost always, anyway ;)
Any other canon/fanon things that come to your mind, let me know :)
See, what intrigues me is that is the first time for me to be there when a fandom is born, and to be a witness to how these little details are picked up and how (my other fandom being the Pros, 26 yo :)
Yes, I've been browsing in other fandoms, but always on the fringes, and never since the beginning, so it's like..wanting to point these changes down in time. Maybe in five years, I'll be able to come back and remember where 'that' started, you know? :)
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Or not. :D
LOL @ "I knew ya when" in SPN. I'm there with ya. And you're absolutely right ... there are fan assumptions that can totally take over canon, and the fans forget which one is right.
In fact, I ran into one of those the other day in Highlander. The fandom as a whole has completely changed the first name of a character there. Because he was predominantly referred to by his last name (Horton), that is the "identifier" that most fans know him by. But he was also called by his first name -- James -- a number of times.
It was only after I'd posted a story referring to him as "Peter" that some quick eyed soul pointed out that his name was actually "James," (something I actually should have know), but fandom started referring to him as "Peter" because the name of the actor who played him is Peter and it just kind of stuck. So most of the fandom now thinks you've gaffed if you call him by the first name the series actually gave him.
Too funny ... but it happens more often than we, in fandom, realize.
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I love Horton, he's such a good guy! Imean in a very evil way. The actor was a sweetie, too. I remember him at my second con, and yes I know actors are not their characters, but you still get that double take when the sweetest man talks to you in the most polite, charming way and you still think 'omg, you're so Evil!' for a few seconds, LOL
So, James=Peter now :) *giggles*
yep, that's funny, and exactly what I meant. *nodnod*
re: the diapers!boys killing demons (...*giggles*...), Sam saying to Dean "Dad lets you do your gig?" (or something like that) tells me that John has been much more protective of the boys that what the fandom in general thinks, because it means that even at 22 yo (when Sam left for college at 18), John wouldn't let Dean go solo.
So there to John-omg-he-such-a-bad-father supporters :P
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He is a true gentle man, isn't he?
So there to John-omg-he-such-a-bad-father supporters :P
I'm with ya! (But I'm going to stand behind you so when they start lobbing those "bad daddy!" tomatoes our direction, I'll have a little cover behind which to duck. LOL)
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depends on how tall you, because, me? Shortie *G*
Might not provide that good a cover. ;)
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*giggles hard*
tomatoe moosh, uh? Okay, I fear not tomatoes. I'll hold my Papa flag tall and proud *G* (and use it to avoid the worst of the tomato-moosh rain) :D
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Here it is:
Sam: The way we grew up. Like survivalists or something. New town, new school every few months.
Dean: Lots of families move around.
Sam: Yeah? Do they have weapon training? And occult homework? Maybe some family fun time, melting silver into bullets? I never asked for it, Dean. I never wanted to be Dad's good little soldier. I never wanted to hunt down all those freaky-ass things.
I'm not saying it's canon. Quite a few things, including characterization things, changed from that draft(I've only seen it quoted I don't actually have a copy) BUT...I'm just saying, I do think perhaps that is the impression we were meant to be left with. That they spent alot of their childhood going from town to town and school to school every few months--with occasional longer stints.
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Thank you for digging that bit of info up *hugs you lots*
I get it now - and I am sure that they did move around a fair bit, I just wasn't under the impression it was 'that' often...but there you go "New town, new school every few months."
Fantastic. I know I'm nitpicky about canon (at least, that's my inclination) but it doesn't mean I refuse fanon - what fans come up with is often funnier/better/more heartbreaking/angstier etc etc than what the show's writers give us *G*
I just like to know where the two (fanon and canon diverge), that's all.
Thank you SO much for giving me this information :D
*yes, you're hugged again. lots!*
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I completely agree about the canon/fanon thing. Fanon can be great but sometimes it starts to get treated like canon and it can really warp perceptions of the characters.
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I like your meta, very interesting. I never thought Sam was selfish - i just wanted to smack him when Dean was proudly showing off his home-made emf meter *phantom traveler* and Sam dissed it.
:)
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Possibly they moved around a bit more until Sam was old enough to start school - I suppose moving one kid from school to school is complicated, papertrail-wise, two might probably be too complicated unless necessary.
I love the idea of a back-up hunter/protector around. John would think like that, I think/hope/guess, especially after the Strega. :)
Oh yes, I wanted to smack Sam at that, too. How ingenious is it to build something like that from scratch, uh? *pets Dean lots* now I'm wondering how to do that...I should google for it *G*
thanks for your input!
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Transferring your kid to a new school is a bit of a hassle, mid-term particularly so, so i can't see John doing it a lot. Especially after he started in with the c.card thing - he wouldn't want to attract too much attention.
*pets Dean with you*
We think you're cool and smrt, Dean!
:)
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I think you have him really nicely described. The Sam/Sammy thing is a game Dean and Sam play. I don't honestly think Sam really cares one way or another, but I do think you have it right about his departure for college. He wanted safe, and was hurt/angered/scared shitless when John did the 'never darken my door again' thing. Sam is very good at bearing a grudge. He's his father's son!
My very favourite bits of Jared's acting are the little, no speech things... the eyeroll when Dean tells him, "That's fun!" in DIW. And most of all, the end of Salvation, when he was listening to Dean tell him how he was barely keeping it together and laughing/crying/stressing/loving Dean and not knowing what to do, and finished by pulling away because after all, he's a Winchester, and they really CAN'T communicate.
Jared, like Jensen, has made huge strides in his ability to portray the character he has. I can't wait for Season 2.
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I came to love Sam through Dean and John, but I struggle with him, and maybe that's why the above thoughts ended up circling around Sam :)
The Sam/Sammy thing is a game Dean and Sam play.
Oh, I love that. Didn't occur to me, to see it as a game (older brother vs. little brother, push and push back..)
Sam is very good at bearing a grudge. He's his father's son!
Absofuckinglutely *G*
Another great Jared 'no speech' moment is when he/Sam looks up at the Dean from the passenger seat of the Impala in Skin, to make him go back and help his friends. Totally nailed the half-puppy look, half-stubborn look that Dean knows he can't say No to and that can't be bend. *G* And amazingly, they had Wee!Sammy actor making exactly the same expression in SW (I want Lucky Charm....'that look'...gets Lucky Charms).
Can't wait either :)
and got the manager name, thanks!
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- in BM, playing his own reflection in the mirror. He was quite scary, so detached and cold.
First off, WORD to that. Evil!Sam was amazing and disturbingly hot.
I think Sam wanted out of the hunting buisness ("This is not gonna be my life. That`s not who I am") for good, but didn`t initially mean to cut ties with the family until John made with the ultimatum.
As a child he probably saw all the other kids being able to do things like playing soccer while he was being kept from it and didn`t understand why. So he wanted the "normal" he saw others having. And life at Stanford seemed to have appealed to him. So, I don`t know if he wanted the apple pie life with the white picket fence etc to a T, but probably something close enough. Closer to normal than the Winchester family way anyway.
As for the "Sammy" thing, I think at first it irked Sam more, because he felt Dean still regarded him as the chubby twelve year old and didn`t really take him serious as an adult.
In Bloody Mary, when Dean comes to the rescue, it`s all "Sammy, Sammy", it`s very paternal, as if in his mind he viewed Sam as a child still. And when they were still growing reaquainted with each other, Sam bristled about that.
As the Season progressed, they grew more at ease with each other, there was more friendly banter, so he lets the nickname slide. He might not like it, but it doesn`t bother him too much anymore. I feel he has just given up on trying to correct Dean about that. Not to mention that Dean would probably do it out of spite, the more Sam insisted on him not to. :)
With Dad, they are at each other`s throats enough as it is. They don`t need the Sammy thing to come to blows. *g*
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Oh, yes, absolutely. I'm rewatching the eps chronologically (for another meta post I'm planning) and it jumped out to me. So, yes, it makes sense as you say that the more they become at ease with each other, working as equals, as a team, the less Sam needs to push his 'Sam' persona/adult persona :)
With Dad, they are at each other`s throats enough as it is. They don`t need the Sammy thing to come to blows. *g*
I so love that *G* Because I strongly doubt that John would follow orders as he pretends from his boys, unless he was in a strict hyerarchy, that is, back in the Marines...anyway, I love that they don't see how similar they are.
In my opinion, Dean looks like John body-wise (movements, body built, soldier-like -- face more like Mary), whereas Sam has John's temperament, full on.
thanks for commenting!
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Hee. Wonder if that was a factor in all the fall-outs he had with other hunters/supporters. Somehow I don`t think Elkins and Bobby are alone in this. *g*
In my opinion, Dean looks like John body-wise (movements, body built, soldier-like -- face more like Mary), whereas Sam has John's temperament, full on.
Great observation. It`s kinda hilarious that John and Sam probably think the root of their problems lies in being too different, while in reality it`s being too much alike.
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Wonder if that was a factor in all the fall-outs he had with other hunters/supporters. Somehow I don`t think Elkins and Bobby are alone in this. *g*
Somehow, I agree with you *g*
I do hope we will get to know more, about the boys as kids and about John's fellow hunters. *crosses fingers*
*looks with puppy eyes at prolific fic writers*
Oh, and yes, it is hilarious. It makes me want to grab them by their ears and shake them until their teeth rattle! ("Stop being stubborn asses! Look at what you're doing to Dean!")
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Dito. It is a shame we only got such short glimpses of Caleb and Pastor Jim, seeing as the latter seemed to have known them for a long time. I wonder if he was John`s supreme back-up person for the boys, in case something happened to him? Maybe he can return in flashbacks.
And I wonder what other hunters felt about John`s choices for the boys. Did Elkins even know about them? They didn`t know about him, so maybe John left them for a while to go learn the tricks of the trade.
Sigh, there is still so little to go on with their childhood. And who doesn`t want to see Sam the drama dork in "Our Town"? *g*
Oh, and yes, it is hilarious. It makes me want to grab them by their ears and shake them until their teeth rattle! ("Stop being stubborn asses! Look at what you're doing to Dean!")
Or maybe Dean finally will. "Enough from you two, now go to your rooms and NO dessert today." And they could only go: "Yes, Mom." *g*
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*dies laughing*
I'd pay to see that, I swear.
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Good point. Unless he home-schooled them along the way, there's no way Sam could've attended enough school to make him viable as a college entrant. Especially if John really was hunting things all over the country. More likely they'd move every few years, and John would take weekly (weekend?) or bimonthly trips into the immediate and far areas, hunting whatever was closest to their current location, and probably taking the boys along in that case.
Which would, in a way, be even more difficult for them growing up, adjust to a place, be there long enough to make friends but still having to keep them at a distance because of the Family Business
Actually, this seems very probable to me. Very military-family-ish anyways, and it could explain why Dean in particular is so attached to John. John was the only constant. No point making friends when you're going to move soon, anyway. Dad's always there. And Sam might have fallen prey to the same thing, but rebelled by leaving the nest as soon as possible.
Sam was 18 and Dean 22, John didn't let them go on their own - obsessive protective father much? But it also meant that John was looking after them, in his own way.
He probably didn't want to leave them until he knew they could fend for themselves. Or maybe he was thinking around that point that it was time to track down the Demon, and he didn't want them inolved, so he started sending Dean off on solo trips for that reason? Keep him occupied, demonstrate his skill, so John knew he'd be OK if the Demon killed him?
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Very good point, yes. Also, he probably instilled the fear of God in his kids re: strangers.
I think John started letting Dean go on his own because he was old enough by then, and as a reaction to Sam being away. Making Dean independent.
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Hm, possible. Never know when one of them might be possessed...
I think John started letting Dean go on his own because he was old enough by then, and as a reaction to Sam being away. Making Dean independent.
Could be. Still, from what I recall of the pilot, John pretty much seemed to go on a 'hunt' and disappear, and didn't tell Dean that he was going after the Demon. So yeah, maybe he was letting Dean be independent, but mainly so that John himself would be freed up to take on Big Evil?
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Oh, that could certainly be. Then again, Sam seemed surprised that John was letting Dean go out and hunt on his own, so I wonder if John was letting him do that, just to see if Dean could survive on his own. And then when Dean proved he could handle it, that freed John up to pursue Big Evil...but hey, your interpretation works, too. I'm no expert on the early eps. by any means, anyway. That's one of my 'projects' for my summer vacation - have a Supernatural Marathon and rewatch the whole season. Oh, the hardship (NOT)! ;)
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NORMAL-SAFE
I think that safe and normal are used almost interchangeably. I think even the characters get confused over the meaning, as much as freak is used amorphously. The call the Supernaturally touched freaks, and they call themselves freaks, and yet there is a clear US and Them.
Sam, I think, confuses safe and normal in a superficial way, unless he is confronted with the differences, and then he will elaborate.
In fanon- which I have forever fallen behind with, and that's okay, because... OMG! Dude. I can NOT keep up and keep living at the same damn time!- I think that the concept takes off more than in canon.
And, it should, because WE aren't being PAID to do this.
Krip and his Co are the ones who need to stick their fingers in plotholes, figure out the psychology, connect the dots and cross their zeros.
We can run with a quasi-AU. Sam can think that normal = safe, when in fact he knows it's not, and the opposite doesn't hold true, either. Sam's smart like that. A little more socially grounded than Dean, and that's his edge.
WTF where was I going?
ALWAYS MOTELS
I don't think it was always motels. I think they camped a lot too. I imagine survivalist training. I also imagine home schooling. John's a smart guy. He seems geared to teaching his sons what they need to know in life. The three R's fit. And to do some of their more clever things, like make EMFs and short security systems, they had to have specialized training.
I actually think that they didn't spend much time in school at all. I think, especially Dean, spent a great deal of school time with their father and his friends, learning experience trades. I can see Sam rebelling and finding a way to attend day school and trying to live in the ignorant world. I can se John allowing him that choice, as long as he didn't neglect his gun porn... did I say porn? I meant target practice.
I can totally see Dean saying day school is for weenies. I can also see him secretly regretting not going more and living a teen life with sports and lockers and uncomfortable desks.
It isn't really that hard to work with the system to produce illiterate, ignorant children who have seen a few days out of a year in a school. Sadly. ESPECIALLY in Kansas.
DON'T CALL ME...
But I love calling him Sammy. It's the dimples. They say cute.
I totally think it's the brother factor playing in there. A way to express... whatever needs expressing.
I haven't seen Bugs, but when I get the disc I will. I don't care if people say it sucked. I hate bugs, so it WILL touch me. Perhaps I don't want to be touched the way it will touch me but... *snickerchoke* beggars can't be choosers...*BOLMAO*
Look, I amuse me so easily.
MOMENTS JP KICKS ASS...
He emotes with his eyes, and wibbles on cue. Dude! It's good.
I agree with the deepening voice thing, but I think the chin jutting is cute boy posturing. Maybe over the top, but I think it fits okay for Sam. Because Sam is the one who is sweet and kind and EVIL! and will EXPLODE on you like a mo'fuckin freight train if you mess with his equilibrium. So the -I can split your forehead open with my chin- may be warranted.
Comments:
Dad and the little boys camping as an epi should be done. Damnit. I'm getting backed up on these unwritten scripts. Darn life, getting in my way of scriptwriting. *LOL*
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I have to disagree :) When in the Pilot Dean says 'normal', Sam clearly stresses 'Safe' as if that is what really mattered to him - later on, yes, they sort of use both terms interchangeably, but that very first exchange seem significant to me.
They call the Supernaturally touched freaks, and they call themselves freaks,
Dean more than Sam, but yes. However, I think Dean really sort of considers himself a freak, as if what he does really does put him straight in the same universe as the ghosts/spirits etc - a world apart from the rest of the unaware humanity.
I can totally see Dean saying day school is for weenies. I can also see him secretly regretting not going more and living a teen life with sports and lockers and uncomfortable desks.
Yes. I do think that Sammy went to school a lot more than Dean, because by then John would want Dean with him while hunting, so school could be a good 'babysitting place' for Sammy.
I can split your forehead open with my chin
*dies*
LOL, never saw it that way! *G*
Oh gosh, a The Winchesters Go Camping script HAS to be written!
I don't want to have a RL, there's too much to do in fandom!!!
:D